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robertjohnsonSubject: Driving and fog lamps that wont extinguish
Posted on:
11/03/2004 07:48 PM
The following is an unresolved complaint on a 2004 Van Where
the driving lamps are hard wired to park position and high
beam and low beam, and Cannot be shut off to respect the
eyes of the uncoming motorists

Subject: Too much Light ahead of our vehicles on Major
highways
-----------------------------------------
When we  meet  uncoming vehicles at night on the highway
systems in North  america
 
And the weather is Clear, And the uncoming  Vehicles have 
their   added Fog lamps and or driving lamps operating in
full brillance.
 
Then We flash them to let them know,That their lights are
causing some Glare and visibility problems for us as an
approaching driver.
 
Then their vehicle  Lights go from high beam with  4 lamps
lit, ??      To low beam with 4 lamps lit.??    ( clear
weather)
 
What goes through our minds, ??
--------------------------------------------
 
(A)      Does the Vehicle have an illuminated and word
marked  on/off switch installed ??
 so the driver can shut the additional  lights  off??
 
(B)     Or are the added lamps Hard wired to the park lamp
position of the headlamp switch  ??
 
(C)    Or has the driver, Not been able to find the on/off
switch to shut off the fog or driving lamps ??
 
(D) Or have the Police not used the T.V. media to warn
drivers, About Not using fog lamps  when the weather is
clear
 
(E) Or are our road safety laws So poorly written, That 
the enforcement of the laws becomes  Impossible
 
If the vehicle design engineer that has any safety
compassion for the eyes of the uncoming motorists they 
should ensure that his designed vehicle is equipped with
the following  ROAD SAFETY SMART  features
 
(1)   An illuminated  and marked on/off switch for the  Fog
lamps and is close to operators fingertips
 
(2)  and ensure that the fog lamps are only accessable from
the Low beam lamp function.
 
(3) And that the operator has the ability to operate Low
beam lighting with the fog lamps 
 
(4) Or have the fog lamps operate alone with Tail lamps
park lamps and other marker lamps lit with the fog lamps 
 
(5)  And That a drop out feature is provided in the
electrical system that allows the fog lamps to be selected
on low beam,
 
(5A)  But when the driver switches to high beam,
 
(5B) And then re selects Low beam 
 
(5C) The  drop out feature  will not allow the fog lamps
to
Be lit again until the driver re selects, the fog lamp
switch.  For the following  safety reasoning
 
Too many  drivers switch the fog lamps on and never shut
them off. And the fog lamps are lit all the time even in
clear weather.??
--------------------------------------------
 
(F)  Driving Lamps Insure that an illuminated and word
Marked  on/off swith is available close to operators
fingertips
 
(F1)  Ensure that if unit is equipped with additional
Driving lamps, That the additional driving lamps can only
be accessed from the high beam lamp operations,
 
(F2) And have the operator be able to use the high beam
operations, with the driving lamps, 
 
(F3) Or be able to use the driving lamps alone with the
tail lamps park lamps and other vehicle marker lamps
operating 
 
This prevents the driving lamps from operating on low
beam.
--------------------------------------------
 
Daytime Driving lamps are an accident prevention tools   To
prevent  daylight vehicle frontal  collisions.
 
The ones mostly chosen extinguish, when the park brake is
applied and
 
 Operates the low beam lamps at aprox 60% of their wattage
And these are really nice and do not cause Glare for the
uncoming drivers,

These are available at most auto retailers and off the
internet
 
Other scary installations. That do nothing for road safety
and create Too Much light to approaching drivers 
--------------------------------------------
Some unwary vehicle designers, Install 2 additional bright
lamps to operate  as Daytime driving lamps.  Instead of the
  First stated design
 
However forget that they sometimes, they allow these bright
lamps to operate at night time, and call them
either fog lamps or auxillary driving lamps
 
This design is really problematic, due to the following
reasons
 
(A)  Added lamp glare is  projected forward from the
vehicle into the eyes of the uncoming drivers.
 
(B)  And in many cases the vehicles are not equipped with a
nightime automatic lamps off feature, 
 
 (C) And not equipped with  an  illuminated manual on/off
switch so the drivers can shut off the 
fog or auxillary driving lamps when the following occurs
 
(1) The weather is clear
 
)2)  Other drivers blink their lamps to warn us  that our
additional lamps are lit and causing vision and glare
problems.
 
(3)  We want to save fuel energy, and reduce the vehicle
operation cost )
 
If a vehicle is properly equipped with park lamps on the
front and High and Low beam operations
--------------------------------------------
 
There is little need to allow more light to operate at
night time especially when the weather is clear.
 
And we must ensure we do not allow design engineers to
design and offer for sale,  Vehicles that contain nightime
lighting problems,
 
 Where the vehicle operator cannot employ Common sense (
Lamp switch off )  evasive action to correct ,
 
WE must have more emphasis placed on the Vehicle design
people to stop these poorly  designed lighting systems,
 
 That allow additional lamps to operate when not required
 
And we must  give the responsibility for safe vehicle
operation BACK to the DRIVERS.
 
And we need better control of the after market installation
of additional driving and Fog lamps,
 
And have the law enforcement people set proper ENFORCEABLE
SAFETY regulations in place that meet common sense and keen
vehicle safety management.on our highways systems. 
 
The N.H.T.S.A have many good articles on safety and vehicle
lighting
 
 
WE are in the middle of of an arbitration process case
regarding vehicle driving lights, Where the driving lamps
are lit any time.
Park lamps are lit, low beams are on, high beams are on.

And we are concerned about respecting the eyes of uncoming 
drivers, and  not to be involved in any promotion of ROAD
RAGE.
 
Happy motoring
Bob Johnson 
Replies
robertjohnsonSubject: Re: Driving and fog lamps that wont extinguish
Posted on:
11/30/2004 09:34 PM
Please read the article and visit the weblink
and see the allowable light allowed in the regulation
and the additional light that is not required on the
vehicle 

candlepower (cp.) 
a unit formerly used for measuring the light-radiating
capacity of a lamp or other light source. One candlepower
represents the radiating capacity of a light with the
intensity of one "international candle," or about 0.981
candela as now defined. Since 1948 the candela has been the
official SI unit of light intensity, and the term
"candlepower" now means a measurement of light intensity in
candelas, just as "voltage" means a measurement of electric
potential in volts.. 

From the link below

http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/dictC.html

So based on above information,

1 candlepower =  0.981 candela

Proper park lamp Replacement Bulbs  are 2.25 candlepower in
the park filament portion of the bulb

or 0.981X 2.25 = 2.207 Candela  each bulb
X 2 bulbs  one L.H   and one R.H. =  4.414 candela 

Which is safety  Regulated Under the M.V act regulations 
for the Vehicles front parking lamps     This was supplied
on the vehicle  in Amber Color and really easy to see.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
However 2 more white lights are supplied in the lower
bumper and are tied too and operate with the lamps above.

These are  125 candela X  2 =  250 candela more than
allowed or  250 divided by the figure of  4.414
which is    56.63 times more Light   than allowed in the
B.C. Motor Vehicle safety regulations 4.10  

even 50% of this non required light would be an insult to
any the safety regulations

its No wonder we have so many vehicles on the highways that
are making our night driving more difficult,

and this complaint is only related to  park lamps,

Have a nice day an safe motoring to you and yours
BJ   

robertjohnsonSubject: Re: Driving and fog lamps that wont extinguish
Posted on:
11/21/2004 06:56 PM
when we look at the British Columbia and Canadian
regulations for vehicle lighting in the attached Links
 
http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/reg/M/MotorVehicle/26_58/26_58-00.htm
 
http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/1999/19990227/html/regle1-e.html
 
ASK  THIS QUESTION,
 
 Why are the Federal  regulators not  writing better rules
to control the installation of Good design Daytime running
Light modules  

 
This is the  DRL that operates the low beam at aprox 60% of
brilliance, This is a far superior installation
 
and eliminates the use additional lamps that are showing up
on the Canadian roads,
 
To torture the eyes of all oncoming vehicle drivers
 
Because no one in our federal govt. has taken the
initiative to set proper standards in place 
 
To control to LIGHT POLLUTIUON we currently
find out on the Highways that are supposed to 
safety controlled by the Managers that are paid the Big
Bucks 
 
And are spending hours drafting tons and tons of  Drivvel,
to explain and control the 
application of a model of DRL that allows additional lamps
on vehicles
 
This is a form or BUILT IN CANADA ROADS ROAD RAGE.
  
Why would any regulatory  group allow the DRL to operate
DRL in daytime and as other lamps at night
 
WITHOUT SWITCHING to shut off the ADDED light at  the front
of all vehicles,
 
Give your head a shake Vehicle regulators an wake up before
we Kill more people on the highway systems
 
CHeers BJ 
 
robertjohnsonSubject: Re: Driving and fog lamps that wont extinguish
Posted on:
12/01/2004 05:46 PM
Federal Motor vehicle lighting safety regulations require
updating to require application of common sense road safety
i.e..
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(A)  all vehicles must be equipped with Daytime Running
lamps that operate in the low beam of the headlamps at
aprox 60% brilliance   ( this prevents the need for
additional lights to be installed that do not extinguish at
night)
 
(B)  All vehicles will be equipped with a maximum of 2
only,  (AMBER COLORED) front parking lamps on extreme outer
 front fenders

(C)  additional lights that are used as fog lamps  will be
equipped with i.e..
     
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------(C1)
illuminated on/off switch to allow operator to select  Fog
lamps only with front and rear parking lamps and marker
lamps

(C2) switching to allow fog lamps to be operated with low
beam lamps  

(C3) wiring and switching to prevent fog lamps from
operating on high beam operations

(C5) sequenced drop out feature supplied that when the
operator selects fog lamps on low beam, and Then selects
high beam
That the fog lamps will not operate again until the fog
lamp switch has been selected again

This will prevent people from turning on the fog lamps and
leaving them on, and never shutting them off

(D) additional lamps that are to operate as auxiliary
driving lamps  will be equipped with i.e. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------D1)
an Illuminated on/off switch to allow auxiliary driving
lamps to operate alone with front and rear tail lamps and
marker lamps

(D2) switching to allow operation of Auxiliary driving
lamps with the high beam  normal operations

(D3) switching to prevent the Auxiliary driving lamps from
operating on low beam

Problem vehicles currently operating on our highway systems
 ( ROAD RAGE ATTRIBUTION FACTOR )
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- We have aprox 30% of the vehicle on the highway systems
now  that have major lighting  problems effecting oncoming
drivers

(A) too many lights operating at night similar to our
complaint unit

(B) Many units operating additional lamps as D.R.L That do
not extinguish at Night

(C) after market fog or driving lamps installed  and Hard
wired directly to low or high beam ( which prevent the
driver from shutting off the lamps in clear weather  or to 
 ( protect  the vision of  of oncoming motorists)

(D) The lack of Roadside inspections by the R.C.M.P. and 
Vehicle inspection groups  do nothing to promote safer
night time roads

(E) The lack of Mandatory vehicle inspections across
Canada, So far has fallen on the deaf ears of Politicians

And the Canadian Roads systems become ever more Dangerous
to drive on at Nights, By Man made vehicle lighting
designs. That are a   ROAD RAGE   Contribution factor

Happy motoring BJ 

             
robertjohnsonSubject: Re: Driving and fog lamps that wont extinguish
Posted on:
12/07/2004 02:53 PM
We found the problem with the additional parking lamps 
Mounted in the front bumper of the 2004  Ford Freestar

The vehicle has  2 legal amber colored park lamps on the
front of the unit  that operate at the Normal C.P Candela
2.207 each total for 2 lamps  4.414

These are really nice,

Than there is a double up of the Park lamp  standard,
Because of two more white lamps mounted in the from
bumper.

These came from the factory with the wrong bulbs for park
lamp operations  Bulb # G.E 912 at 12 C.P.

The proper bulbs for this operation are Bulb #  916 at 2
C.P.

The safety standard for park lamp operations is built into
the Bulb designed for the applications,

The amber colored park lamps operate with the high and low
beam lamp operations to depict the side of the vehicle in
the event of headlamp burnout.  And prevent the vehicle
from being mistaken for a motorcycle

WE are installing the proper bulbs on the next oil change 
( cost of the bulbs aprox $ 3.00 for two in a bubble pack)

You can find the technical Bulb information In the
following G.E manuals   Miniature and sealed beam
applications catalogue #  GE
20699, and G.E lighting and selection guide # PC28870  most
auto retailers have the manuals

There are several other Ford and Mercury units with the
Wrong Bulbs installed they can be found in the above
manuals

This wrong bulb installation is related to product sales
and is an insult to the eyes of the oncoming motorists And
prevents the driver from shutting off added parking lamps
that are lit at all highway speeds 

for vehicle and highway  safety improvements on the
Canadian and American highway systems

WE need a major recall of the units using the Wrong bulbs
for the Parking lamp operations

Cheer BJ 

robertjohnsonSubject: Re: Driving and fog lamps that wont extinguish
Posted on:
01/15/2005 11:08 PM
In  British Columbia Canada The BCAA auto club offers a
reduction in insurance cost to people who bu a vehicle with
or instal an anti theft device

Should this insurance break be available to vehicle owners
that

instal a DRL1 kit on an older vehicle or update to the DRL1
that operate in the low beam of the vehicles lighting
system??

BJ   
robertjohnsonSubject: Re: Driving and fog lamps that wont extinguish
Posted on:
01/19/2005 05:06 PM
in 2005 will the U.S.A have vehicles deliverd with Daytime
Running Lamps installed??

Will they be the DRL 1 that operate in the low beam of the
headlamp system??

Will the DRL lamps extinguish when the park brake is
applied??

Will they have additional lamps installed for the DRL
operations,??

Will these additional DRL Lamps extinguish at night??

Or will operator have an illuminated on/off switch to allow
the lights to be shut off when not required??

Will the Fog lamps be hard wired to the low beam operations
??

Or will a seperate  illuminated  on/off switch be supplied
in the vehicles 

BJ
robertjohnsonSubject: Re: Driving and fog lamps that wont extinguish
Posted on:
02/04/2005 03:58 PM
For 16 years we owned a chryrsler aries K car station wagon
it was a really nice vehicle and when we sold it it had
260.000. km we had really good success with the unit

and especially loved the headlamps after O.E.M sealed beam
lamps were replaced we installed the H 6054 replacement
sealed beams with the low wide angle beam pattern that are
sold by canadian tire for about $ 18.50 each

These are an improved tremendous headlamp. and have a wide
beam pattern that alluminates the highways and the R.H
ditch area, and is good for areas where deer are present,
on coming drivers do not dip their lamps at these sealed
beams

Many of the newer vehicles now have added lamps on the
front 

If good quality sealed beam are used we do not need
additional lamps supplied on the vehicles 

If additional lamps are installed these must be equipped
with illuminated on/off switches and called either fog or
driving lamps

Installing additional lamps that cannot be extinguised at
night ( provide questionable respect for the eyers of
oncoming drivers?)

Many of the newer vehicle are equipped with lighting arrays
covered with plastic coverings, these will fade and need
replacing at higher cost to owners

high quality sealed beam 
-----------------------------
Lets not forget that many of the good sealed beams sold for
years 
perform really well and are easy to change

and are afffordable

and operate as a stand alone lamp as 2 vehicle headlamps 

offer less light for oncoming drivers to experience 

WE are the seniors that do not replace their vehicle as
often as others

My next vehicle probably will be an aluminum walker

cheers 
BJ

 
    
robertjohnsonSubject: Re: Driving and fog lamps that wont extinguish
Posted on:
02/19/2005 02:09 PM
 We can send men to the moon and analize other planets.

Why cannot vehicle builders incorporate a feature in the
fog lamp system  that allow the operator to use 

Low beam and select fog lamps, and then when the vehicle
drives into a clear area
and selects  High beam that the fog lamps

Will drop out and will not become lit again until the
operaor is again on low beam and reselects fog lamps  
manually

This would prevent the fog lamp switch from being Propped
on and left on from day to day
and being forgotten

And defaulting to fog lamps on every time low beam is
selected and or until the operator remembers to shut off
the fog lamps

Cheers BJ

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